Round Table No. 14: Genta – will we ever move on?

Chris: Partly inspired by the recent furore over the latest Credor reissue (did you know Genta designed a watch for Seiko?), and mainly by general ennui, let us commit the ultimate sin and take shots at one of the saints. Who wants to kick things off?

Ryan: Have you ever been betrayed by someone you love? I’m sure we all have. Now imagine a watch brand that you have been a staunch supporter of for almost your whole life as a collector betrays you. I feel like my best friend has confided in me that he has a thing for <insert any illegal thing here>. 

I love the design language of the older Credor Pacifique. I have been meaning to get one, but each time I have money saved up, I buy another vintage watch. An Eterna and an Omega for half the price of a beaten up quartz Credor isn’t the worst deal in the world, so you can’t blame me for jumping the gun. The Credor Signo is also right up my alley: small, quartz, simple and very well-built. Their modern catalogue never did too much for me. I like the Eichi, but not enough to aspire to own one. I like the fact that it’s almost like the “thinking man’s” Grand Seiko, in that Credor owners and fans don’t ramble on about polishing and need to convince you that it’s better than a Rolex to justify their spending. That’s slowly going to change as Credor goes from JDM to globally available.

I could somewhat maybe see the appeal of the new Credor if I forewent sobriety. I own a watch with an integrated bracelet. I’m coming clean. My Bucherer has an integrated bracelet. I don’t own a waffle dial watch yet. I don’t really like integrated bracelets. Honestly, I bought the Bucherer because it was cheap and the bracelet looked cool. A waffle dial can also look nice, but put the two together and you have a cookie-cutter shape that any brand starving for profit will use. It’s exhausting. Integrated bracelet watches with waffle dials and screws on the bezel are the Nissan Qashqais and Volkswagen Golfs of the watch world. They’ve got their market share, yes, because some people don’t care that a watch is about as stylistically unique as a bowl of brown rice and a glass of water. Unfortunately supply and demand means we have loads of microbrands selling affordable divers that are all spec and no soul and plenty of brands, small and large, offering us watches that look exactly the same. Just let Mr Genta rest in peace, stop kicking his corpse for inspiration.

Credor was always different. They have some normal watches and some that are an acquired taste, but they’ve always had something that set themselves apart, likely because they catered exclusively for the Japanese market. Credor is going international, and they’re making sure that Johnny, Nigel, Jacques and Hans have something to talk about and something that suits their tastes and consumerist lust. An integrated bracelet watch with a waffle dial says one thing: “baah, I’m a sheep.” There’s nothing wrong with following trends, but just remember that emo-rap and rap-metal were trends too. Look where they are now.

This Credor was my breaking point. Down with Western civilisation, let’s go back to sundials and clay pots.

Sherwin: In a lot of ways I’m your average neo-watch collector, finding excitement in new releases that won’t necessarily appeal to hardcore watch enthusiasts. I am fine giving into hype even though my purchase history would show otherwise. Like the average (I guess you can say less discerning) watch enthusiast, I love integrated bracelets. I have the PRX, I have homages of the Nautilus and the Royal Oak, and my favorite Longines that I own–while not a pure integrated bracelet–has that aesthetic (see photo). News and images of the Citizen Tsuyosa, Christopher Ward The Twelve, and the other ten thousand integrated bracelet models out there will almost always interest me more than new watches with better movements or unusual dials. I may not buy them but I’m paying attention. If I ever get rich enough to afford a trinity, it would have to be the Nautilus or the 222. So, yeah, I guess I’m a sheep. Baaaah baaah. 

Asking if we’re ever going to get over Genta is like asking whether music will ever get over the Beatles. Sure, the Beatles aren’t topping the charts anymore but they created the basic template (vocals, rhythm guitar, bass guitar, lead guitar, and drums) of what we all collectively consider to be “a band”. Agree or disagree, that’s the template. It’s not impossible for society to evolve and break away from that template and maybe we’re slowly doing so. To me, Gérald Genta created the basic template of what we collectively consider to be “good watch design,” right or wrong. I should add the disclaimer that by we I mean to include everyone, especially outside the watch community. 

It’s not impossible for us to get over it. I think the MoonSwatch and Kith Heuer are indications of where watches are headed. The purists won’t like it but brands can’t rely on just the enthusiasts to make their money. They have to somehow penetrate the zeitgeist and these plastic collaborations seem to be it. For now. Well, also integrated bracelets still. 

I don’t see brands using the tried-and-tested Genta design language as abusive. You can say they’re derivative, maybe even accuse them of being lazy, but not abusive. Any sane and humble creative person would love for their work to have an enduring impact in the world, to continue being used for inspiration. I’d like to think of myself as creative and what I wouldn’t give to be able to contribute a lasting piece of work that will outlive me and my descendants. 

Arthur Conan Doyle famously resented his Sherlock Holmes character and wouldn’t have wanted that to be his legacy. 

Jani Lane, lead singer of the band Warrant, went on a tirade on VH1 about the song Cherry Pie, which was not what the band had hoped would be their legacy, saying “I could shoot myself in the fucking head for writing that song.” 

Later on, before his death, he clarified that that interview was just a case of bad timing, given what was going on in his life at the time, stating, “You know, push that interview to the side, I’m happy as a clam to have written a song that is still being played and still dug by so many people. It’s hard enough to write a song, let alone one that sticks around.”

The thing is, no one knows what lasts or endures. It’s not your call even if you are the genius behind something. It’s up to the masses and their descendents to determine which thing–no different from any other thing out there–will stick. Genta made something that stuck and continues to stick. It won’t last, nothing does. But I don’t see it going away any time soon and we should all be fine with that.

Greg: There are some articles in the watch press about designers who are not Genta. They designed some nice watches. But Genta’s greatest hits are still highlights in the very narrow field of watch design. We are still very close to his lifetime and his shadow doesn’t show any signs of dissipating.

I think of him like Frederick Law Olmstead. There was no one really like Olmstead. His greatest hits can still be seen in major cities all over the U.S. You really can’t get away from his work. It is all outward facing and public, unlike Capability Brown’s work on the estates of lords. Genta worked for the biggest companies and produced many of their biggest selling watches. Even the one’s I like least are still noteworthy, like the White Shadow.

I am not going to fight the name recognition. Every building in the 19th century was not designed by Louis Sullivan or in the 20th century by Frank Lloyd Wright or I.M. Pei. But, if you can name only one watch designer it may as well be Genta.

Chris: I’m not sure I’m going to be adding anything clever here (surprise surprise). Genta, for all of his hits, was going to have some misses. You cannot be that prolific and be consistent in “dropping the bangers”. I think he claimed to have drawn designs for over 100,000 watches, and he left his wife up to 4,000 unused designs (3,200 I have read on a few sources). A 1% failure rate of that ~100,000 would be ~1,000. One could be facetious and claim that the Royal Oak, Nautilus, or the Ingenieur fall into that 1%, but you would be wrong. You could claim the Polerouter or the Constellation are the best watches he designed, but you might be a little basic. White Shadow? Vanilla pudding. I am quite partial to my Pasha, but it is not for everyone, unless you are a fan of Steampunk cosplay. Bvlgari own a lot of the patents, trademarks, etc… and have done for nearly a quarter of a century, so who knows what they have on ice. You see “Genta” in the Octo and the Bvlgari, and I would argue maybe in the Ergon (although that might be wishful thinking on my behalf). 

I do not like the Credor (shock, horror…), it looks a little gelatinous, but perhaps that was the intention. I have not read the binder notes, nor taken the audio tour around that part of the museum. If I go all in (why spoil the habit of a lifetime…), I also do not swoon at much of the Gerald Charles catalogue, including recent outings like the Maestro or Masterlink, but that is more due to value. I am sure if I saw an attractive one at a good price I could be convinced, but I am also not particularly interested in sourcing one of them either. 

I am not offended by Genta, or the tropes he created, but what I am a little bit annoyed about is the lack of desire to move away from them. This is a watch industry problem… it is also lazy. I get annoyed with phrases along the lines of “Genta-eqsue” or “Genta-like”, almost as annoyed as I get when I see people misusing Bauhaus as a description. Perhaps it is less a watch industry problem, and more a watch commentary problem. Then again, if he was as prolific as claimed, we probably have a lot of Genta out there and we just do not know it. I have said my piece(s) on watch content numerous times, we do not need me to get riled up for the umpteenth time.